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talapia
07-10-03, 09:50 AM
a'kum..

nak tanye pasal insurans la.. niat di hati nak wat investment.. insurance.. tapi ada musykil sketla.. betul ke org kata.. takaful aje yang halal caranye? tak pahamla.. camne tu? the way they make bisnes ke.. or apa? insurans lain2 tu.. tak dijamin ke?

leh suggest tak polisi yang baik tuk diamik.. n providernye? sebab mende2 ni.. jangka panjang.. so.. nak kena pilih betul2.. jangan sampai nyesal..
tq

zayed
07-10-03, 10:45 AM
Salam,

Mr Talapia.

Takaful Malaysia Berhad menggunakan Sistem Al-Mudharabah yakni perkongsian keuntungan bersama peserta

Takaful Nasional, Maybank Takaful serta yang terbaru Takaful Ikhlas menggunakan sistem al-wakalah. Di mana sistem al-wakalah ini mirip sistem konventional yakni di sana ada Agen2 insurance.

Berbeza dgn takaful malaysia, they employs permanent workers to market their product.

Sekarang ini, Insurance Conventional spt Prudential dgn Dana Al-Syariah, AIA dgn Dana Al-Istimar turut mewarnai dunia insurance takaful. Juga menggunakan sistem al-wakalah.

Apa beza sistem al-wakalah dgn sistem al-mudharabah? Dari segi persamaan, peserta akan menyumbang duit tersebut kpd syarikat insurance dan syarikat insurance akan menggunakan duit tersebut utk melabur dan mendapat perkongsian keuntungan kerana kedua2 peserta mewakilkan syarikat utk melakukan transaksi perniagaan dan di samping itu mendapat faedah perlindungan.

Dari perbezaannya, sistem al-wakalah ini sekiranya peserta decide to surrender (tak mahu mencarum lagi, ingin mendapat refund), peserta will not get the full amount. ini kerana sistem al-wakalah telah menolak komisien kpd agent, fees dsb. Manakala sistem al-mudharabah pula peserta akan mendapat sepenuhnya (ditolak dgn fee).


Takaful Malaysia mempunyai badan pengawasan syariah yakni syarikat tertakhluk kpd arahan badan ini apabila melakukan pelaburan.

Syarikat lain mempunyai badan penasihat syariah. Syarikat tidak tertakhluk dgn nasihat dari badan ini, mereka berhak menerima atau menolaknya.

Yang mana yang terbaik? tepuk dada tanya iman.

Panjang pulak... :D

Wallahua'lam.

shahzams
08-10-03, 05:54 PM
takaful malaysia kot..yang tak tahu laaaa.....

MENJ
08-10-03, 06:28 PM
Kiriman asal oleh talapia
a'kum..

nak tanye pasal insurans la.. niat di hati nak wat investment.. insurance.. tapi ada musykil sketla.. betul ke org kata.. takaful aje yang halal caranye? tak pahamla.. camne tu? the way they make bisnes ke.. or apa? insurans lain2 tu.. tak dijamin ke?

leh suggest tak polisi yang baik tuk diamik.. n providernye? sebab mende2 ni.. jangka panjang.. so.. nak kena pilih betul2.. jangan sampai nyesal..
tq

Wa `alaykum salaam wa rahmatullah, ya akhi;

Insurans konvensional adalah haram kerana mempunyai unsur-unsur riba, maisir dan gharar. Mana-mana sistem takaful di negara ini spt. Takaful Malaysia, Takaful Nasional, dsb. adalah berlandaskan syariah.

Saya adalah wakil Takaful Nasional, kalau ingin mengetahui lebih lanjut tentang produk2 kami, boleh PM saja pada saya.

Wassalam.

MENJ
08-10-03, 06:34 PM
Kiriman asal oleh zayed Apa beza sistem al-wakalah dgn sistem al-mudharabah? Dari segi persamaan, peserta akan menyumbang duit tersebut kpd syarikat insurance dan syarikat insurance akan menggunakan duit tersebut utk melabur dan mendapat perkongsian keuntungan kerana kedua2 peserta mewakilkan syarikat utk melakukan transaksi perniagaan dan di samping itu mendapat faedah perlindungan.

Dari perbezaannya, sistem al-wakalah ini sekiranya peserta decide to surrender (tak mahu mencarum lagi, ingin mendapat refund), peserta will not get the full amount. ini kerana sistem al-wakalah telah menolak komisien kpd agent, fees dsb. Manakala sistem al-mudharabah pula peserta akan mendapat sepenuhnya (ditolak dgn fee).
[/B]

Its obvious that you know nuts about the difference between "al-wakalah" dan "al-mudharabah". Semua produk yang ditawarkan oleh MANA-MANA syarikat takaful di negara ini adalah berlandaskan syariah.

To show you the fallacy of your claims, "al-wakalah" means the"akad", or the perjanjian between the peserta and the company. Konsep al-wakalah ada prinsip ASAS di dalam Takaful. Kalau tiada al-wakalah, maka ia adalah HARAM.

"al-mudharabah" ialah keuntungan yang dibahagikan oleh syarikat kepada dua, 50% kepada syarikat dan 50% pulangan kepada perserta, BESERTA caruman yang terkumpul (dipanggil AKP). Ini ada di dalam Takaful Nasional. Siapa kata TN takkan pulang balik kesemua wang peserta jika policy ditamatkan?? And I don't even have to bother answering the **** about TN not following the advice of the "Badan PENGAWASAN Syariah". kalau tak perlu ikut nasihat diaorang, buat apa ada badan PENGAWASAN??!!

Next time, try checking your facts before you decide to make yourself look like a fool.

Wassalam.

- MENJ

http://www.bismikaallahuma.org

sherrina
09-10-03, 02:02 AM
fuyoo.....garangnya menj. .....:O

kurma
09-10-03, 08:51 AM
ha bile baca explanation menj baru tingat masa nak nikah dulu ada lafaz wakalah dr wali utk mewakilkan imam masa menikahkan anaknye.. mcm akad lar...

talapia
09-10-03, 09:32 AM
so.. kiranye.. takaful je la yek yg ok.. so camne lak ngan yang sekarang ni.. macam prudential.. ada sediakan apa tu.. al-syariah.. ha.. tu camne lak.. yang pasti dia kata.. itu bukan takaful.. so.. camne?

zayed
09-10-03, 09:47 AM
Kiriman asal oleh MENJ
Its obvious that you know nuts about the difference between "al-wakalah" dan "al-mudharabah". Semua produk yang ditawarkan oleh MANA-MANA syarikat takaful di negara ini adalah berlandaskan syariah.

To show you the fallacy of your claims, "al-wakalah" means the"akad", or the perjanjian between the peserta and the company. Konsep al-wakalah ada prinsip ASAS di dalam Takaful. Kalau tiada al-wakalah, maka ia adalah HARAM.

"al-mudharabah" ialah keuntungan yang dibahagikan oleh syarikat kepada dua, 50% kepada syarikat dan 50% pulangan kepada perserta, BESERTA caruman yang terkumpul (dipanggil AKP). Ini ada di dalam Takaful Nasional. Siapa kata TN takkan pulang balik kesemua wang peserta jika policy ditamatkan?? And I don't even have to bother answering the **** about TN not following the advice of the "Badan PENGAWASAN Syariah". kalau tak perlu ikut nasihat diaorang, buat apa ada badan PENGAWASAN??!!

Next time, try checking your facts before you decide to make yourself look like a fool.

Wassalam.

- MENJ

http://www.bismikaallahuma.org

Salam,

Saudara MENJ telah menyalahertikan (next time try not be emotional).

1. Saya tidak kata pun Sistem Al-Wakalah tidak syar'ie dan saya tidak pula menghalang sesiapa hendak membeli sistem takaful yang menggunakan sistem al-wakalah dan tidak pula saya mengatakan sistem al-wakalah itu haram.

2. Benar, memang ada AKP. Tetapi peserta yang hendak berhenti dari mencarum dari Takaful Nasional tidak akan mendapat balik amount sepenuhnya. Nafikanlah bahawa perkara ini salah kerana ada kes sedemikian.

3. I didnt say takaful Nasional dont follow the advice of Badan Penasihat Syariah. What I say, it tertakhluk kpd Takaful Nasional samada ia hendak menerima atau menolak.
Sebagai contoh: Kenapa sekiranya peserta membunuh diri (atau didapati membunuh diri) tidak dicover bawah takaful nasional?
Secondly:
Akta Takaful 1984, seksyen 8 (5)(b):-
"Bahawa terdapatnya dalam artikel persatuan pengendali Takaful yang berkenaan peruntukan bagi penubuhan Majlis Pengawasan Syariah untuk menasihati pengendalian tentang perniagaan Takafulnya untuk memastikan yang ia tidak terlibat dalam apa-apa unsur yang tidak diluluskan"


Saya tahu saudara MENJ part-timer Takaful Nasional Agent. Try not to be bias. I am here to give explanation on the difference and the similarity between both system. I am not telling them which is halal and which is haram.

Wassalam.

mnajem
09-10-03, 10:33 AM
Kiriman asal oleh MENJ
Its obvious that you know nuts about the difference between "al-wakalah" dan "al-mudharabah". Semua produk yang ditawarkan oleh MANA-MANA syarikat takaful di negara ini adalah berlandaskan syariah.

To show you the fallacy of your claims, "al-wakalah" means the"akad", or the perjanjian between the peserta and the company. Konsep al-wakalah ada prinsip ASAS di dalam Takaful. Kalau tiada al-wakalah, maka ia adalah HARAM.

"al-mudharabah" ialah keuntungan yang dibahagikan oleh syarikat kepada dua, 50% kepada syarikat dan 50% pulangan kepada perserta, BESERTA caruman yang terkumpul (dipanggil AKP). Ini ada di dalam Takaful Nasional. Siapa kata TN takkan pulang balik kesemua wang peserta jika policy ditamatkan?? And I don't even have to bother answering the **** about TN not following the advice of the "Badan PENGAWASAN Syariah". kalau tak perlu ikut nasihat diaorang, buat apa ada badan PENGAWASAN??!!

Next time, try checking your facts before you decide to make yourself look like a fool.

Wassalam.

- MENJ

http://www.bismikaallahuma.org


saya khuatir cara anda menjawab akan menyebabkan pelanggan tidak berminat dengan iklan anda di atas.

saya pelanggan Takaful Nasional dan Takaful Malaysia (so far kepada TN,sebab agen dia senang nak cari, hampir lima tahun).

Takaful Malaysia dulu ada Meja di Bank Islam sekarang saya tak pasti.

Kakaroct
09-10-03, 11:16 AM
aku tgh survey insurance gak nih..
maybe TM jadik pilihan...

zayed
09-10-03, 11:32 AM
For MENJ:

As generally agreed by Shariah scholars, the form of insurance business acceptable to Islam in essence must contain the virtues of cooperation, solidarity and brotherhood. However, these are mere concepts that cannot simply be equated and therefore cannot be applied as a basis of legal principles in a contract. In fact the scholars further agreed that the contract of takaful must be based on certain `tijari' principles that conform to the basic characteristics of Islamic business transaction. Towards this end, the scholars concluded that the contract may be based either on the principles of Al-Mudharabah or Al-Wakalah.

Although basically under both principles, the sharing of profit between participants and operators is an entitlement embedded in the contract, there is however a structural difference in the way such profit (surplus) is determined. The difference lies in the fact that under the principle of Al-Mudharabah, the operator as the mudharib or entrepreneur, cannot charge its management expenses from the takaful fund. Whereas under the Al-Wakalah, the operator being the agent of the participants, can use part of the fund to cover its management costs. Under the Al-Wakalah too, underwriting surplus of the takaful fund, if any, shall be distributed back to the participants only, based on the premise that the funds, actually belong to the participants.

On the contrary, under the Al-Mudharabah principle, the profit as universally defined by conventional insurance companies, which in the case of general business is taken to mean returns on investment plus underwriting surplus, is then shared according to a mutually agreed ratio, such as 50:50, 60:40 or 70:30 between the participants and the operators. Management expenses of the operator including agency remuneration, if any, shall be borne by the shareholders' fund and not from the takaful funds. Hence, there is a distinct separation between takaful funds and shareholders' fund.

Under the Al-Wakalah principle, the paid-up capital is contributed as donation by the shareholders. Therefore, under this principle the shareholders do not expect and probably do not mind for not receiving any returns on the capital donated. However, it is understood this standpoint has changed in view of opinion expressed by certain scholars that the shareholders (operator) in their capacity as managers should also be entitled to share the profit arising from the takaful business.

From the observation on the performance of takaful operators using the Al-Wakalah principle it was found that their returns to the participants have been comparatively low. On average their rate of profit declared to their participants below 10% p.a. On the other hand, it is also understood that there are even operators, especially newly established ones have not been able to declare any profit to its participants.

Under the Al Mudharabah principle, shareholders as owners of the operator have equal opportunity to enjoy a similarly fair return on their capital. The profit portion attributable to the shareholders is transferred to the shareholders' fund and together with returns on investment of the fund itself shall pay for the management expenses. Any balance therefrom is declared as profit of the operator and dividends are distributed therefrom. Adopting the Al-Mudharabah principle for takaful operation as experienced by Takaful Malaysia would ensure that the cardinal principles of 'al-adl' and 'al-ihsan' under Islamic contractual obligations are constantly upheld as both participants and shareholders are enjoying similar benefits.

As both principles are acceptable to Shariah and currently being used by various operators all over the world, serious efforts should be taken to harmonise the practice. By this harmonisation, there would be unity in diversity, and equally important would remove the confusion, if any, among the ummah of a common system but with two different modes of practice. It also paves for convenient practical cooperation among these operators. Towards this end, moves towards establishing an accounting standard for takaful operators that at the same time will harmonise the two practices initiated and undertaken by the `Accounting & Auditing Organisation For Islamic Financial Institutions (AAOIFI)' should be lauded and strongly supported.

Bear in MIND:
The time for polemic is past; it is no more discoursing on the basic issue of `halal' or `haram'. The way forward is on improving, correcting and developing the existing operational structure, which has been generally accepted to be essentially based on either the principles of Al-Mudharabah or Al-Wakalah. It is clearly demonstrated that in countries where there is commitment and strong political willingness plus the application of modern management practices in its approach, countries have seen their takaful operation grow into a viable and profitable business venture.

zayed
09-10-03, 04:49 PM
Salam

If a person ask, what is the different between Al-Mudharabah & Al-Wakalah?

(a) Al Mudharaba Model, whereby cooperative risk-sharing occurs among Participants yet the Takaful Operator shares also in any operating surplus as a reward for its careful underwriting on behalf of Participants.

(b) Al Wakala Model, whereby cooperative risk-sharing occurs among participants with a Takaful Operator earns a fee for services {as a Wakeel or Agent} and does not participate or a share in any underwriting results as these belong to Participants as Surplus or Deficit, under the Al Wakala Model, the operator may also charge a funds management fee and a performance incentive fee.

Wassalam.

mattroxxx
09-10-03, 07:56 PM
Izinkan saya beri pendapat saya berkenaan tajuk ini.

First of all, kalau anda ingin beri financial advice,
saya minta jasa baik anda untuk tulis nama penuh anda
supaya mudah saya/rakan2 lain rujuk dengan Badan Berdaftar nanti.

Kedua, kita tidak boleh terlalu mudah menghukum produk
itu haram sebab terus terang saya katakan(dr pengamatan saya), untuk
mencari produk kewangan yang 100% Islamik agak
mustahil kerana, hampir kesemua produk Islamik dicedok
dari asas konvensional dan diputar-belitkan dengan
istilah Islamik supaya nampak seperti produk Islam.
Saya berkata sedemikian kerana saya sudah lihat
sendiri bagaimana konsep islam diselitkan bermacam
cara untuk menghalalkan riba/interest dan dipromosikan
untuk mengambil kesempatan ke atas orang Islam.

Yang terdapat di pasaran kewangan Islam
sekarang hanyalah 70% Islamik sahaja, baik perbankan
Islam mahupun insurans Takaful kerana asas perniagaan
mereka semuanya dibina dari asas konvensional yang
kemudian diubah suai dengan istilah Islamik. Pusing
macam mana pun, cara pengiraan dan fungsinya tetap
sama seperti produk2 konvensional.

Ketiga, memang terdapat banyak salah faham yang
berlaku di dalam industri kewangan khususnya insurans.
Ini biasanya berlaku apabila anda merujuk kepada orang
yang salah (tidak berkelayakan & tidak pengetahuan
luas).

Saya tidak mahu berdebat dalam isu ini kerana perkara
spt ini biasanya agak panas utk dibincangkan. Cuma
nasihat saya, jika anda mahukan nasihat agama,
rujuklah pada Ustaz. Kalau nak nasihat perubatan,
rujuklah pada doktor.

Dan jika anda mahukan nasihat kewangan, rujuklah
penasihat kewangan yang professional. Dan saya none of those mentioned. :D

zayed
10-10-03, 08:09 AM
Kiriman asal oleh mattroxxx
Izinkan saya beri pendapat saya berkenaan tajuk ini.

Kedua, kita tidak boleh terlalu mudah menghukum produk
itu haram sebab terus terang saya katakan(dr pengamatan saya), untuk mencari produk kewangan yang 100% Islamik agak
mustahil kerana, hampir kesemua produk Islamik dicedok
dari asas konvensional dan diputar-belitkan dengan
istilah Islamik supaya nampak seperti produk Islam.
Saya berkata sedemikian kerana saya sudah lihat
sendiri bagaimana konsep islam diselitkan bermacam
cara untuk menghalalkan riba/interest dan dipromosikan
untuk mengambil kesempatan ke atas orang Islam.

:D

Salam

Boleh tumpang tanya? Siapa yang mengharamkan produk itu?

Wassalam

hanis abdul
13-10-03, 01:05 AM
aku dah beli tiga...polisi...masa beli tu...tak fikir panjang tau...semua life....bila dah fikir kesan dia aku...tak terfikir...aku terus bayar sebab fikir aku dah lama join...rasa rugi..bukan fikir pasal halal ke haram...aku tak arif pasal produk islamik tu...sebab tu aku teruskan gak bayaran tu..zayed boleh komen tak

zayed
13-10-03, 10:45 AM
Salam,

Investment in insurance, it is a must that you need to understand time and value of your money. RM100 today will not be equivalent to RM100 in the next 10 years. This is the missing part. Ini dah masuk part actuarial science. Banyak orang tak tahu benda nih. Penjual insurance main jual je, as long as dapat client/customer, dapat commission. If i were to ask them, what is IRR? what is floating rate for RM?

Why I say so? It's your money. You invest. And you have the rite to get back at the value of your investment.

Contohnya, kalau anda simpan dalam fixed deposit atau beli unit trust (yg islamic) atau beli islamic bond, at the end of your investment period, you will get the amount of money invested plus profit sharing/mudharabah (dalam conventional term, faedah). Contohnya, you invest RM10,000 in 1993. In 2003, what you should get RM10,000 (provided that you dont withdraw) plus interest/profit sharing/mudharabah.

Cumanya, anda tidak mendapat coverage ataupun perlindungan. Berbeza dengan insurance, anda mendapat perlindungan sekiranya berlaku sebarang perkara yang tidak diingini seperti accident, permanent disability, critical illnesses dll. Dalam insurance (under investment/saving scheme), you cannot simply withdraw your money as and when you like. You are subject to rules and regulation.

Walaupun anda mengambil 3 polisi, anda tidak mendapat full coverage seperti dalam perjanjian. Contohnya, anda mengambil insurance dari ING yang memberi perlindungan kemalangan RM10,000, Prudential perlindungan RM10,000 dan OAC RM10,000. Do you believe that you will get RM30,000 when you submit your claim to each company? :D

till then.

talapia
13-10-03, 12:28 PM
Kiriman asal oleh zayed
Salam,

Walaupun anda mengambil 3 polisi, anda tidak mendapat full coverage seperti dalam perjanjian. Contohnya, anda mengambil insurance dari ING yang memberi perlindungan kemalangan RM10,000, Prudential perlindungan RM10,000 dan OAC RM10,000. Do you believe that you will get RM30,000 when you submit your claim to each company? :D

till then.

oo means.. kita tak akan dapat semula full 30000 as we invest la yek? itu kalau convensional style la.. kalau takaful? kita akan dapat 30000 ke? or camne... xplain sket.. tq

zayed
13-10-03, 12:56 PM
Kiriman asal oleh talapia
oo means.. kita tak akan dapat semula full 30000 as we invest la yek? itu kalau convensional style la.. kalau takaful? kita akan dapat 30000 ke? or camne... xplain sket.. tq

salam,

sorry kerana penerangan saya telah menyebabkan saudari telah salah faham.

Illustration:
Saudari membeli Insurance PA dari Prudential, AIA, dan ING. Ketiga2 polisi menyatakan bahawa sekiranya saudara/i mengalami kemalangan saudara/i akan dibayar wang rawatan amaun maksima RM20,000.00.

Let's say (for the sake of discussion), saudara/i mengalami kemalangan dan dimasukkan hospital selama 1 minggu. Jumlah bayaran rawatan adalah RM10,000. Adakah dibolehkan saudara/i claim kpd Prudential RM10,000, dalam masa yang sama saudara/i claim kpd AIA dan ING RM10,000? Maksudnya, at the end of the day you can get RM30,000 berdasarkan 3 syarikat insurance. Jawapannya tidak. This rules also apply to Takaful Malaysia, Takaful Nasional dan semua insurance di Malaysia. Why? Takut ada fraud dlm perkara ni, so adalah preventive measure yang dilakukan oleh kerajaan. Jadi, elakkan ambil 2-3 POLICY yg sama utk diri sendiri.

As for investment scheme ataupun saving scheme under insurance, ia berbeza dgn perkara di atas. Under this scheme, be it convetional or takaful, you will still get the amount invested but it may or may not the worth amount that you supposed to get.

Tq.

mmi_088
13-10-03, 02:05 PM
Kiriman asal oleh zayed




Let's say (for the sake of discussion), saudara/i mengalami kemalangan dan dimasukkan hospital selama 1 minggu. Jumlah bayaran rawatan adalah RM10,000. Adakah dibolehkan saudara/i claim kpd Prudential RM10,000, dalam masa yang sama saudara/i claim kpd AIA dan ING RM10,000? Maksudnya, at the end of the day you can get RM30,000 berdasarkan 3 syarikat insurance. Jawapannya tidak. This rules also apply to Takaful Malaysia, Takaful Nasional dan semua insurance di Malaysia. Why? Takut ada fraud dlm perkara ni, so adalah preventive measure yang dilakukan oleh kerajaan. Jadi, elakkan ambil 2-3 POLICY yg sama utk diri sendiri.


A'kum,
saudara zayed,
saya ni tidak arif.

kat mana kita bley check statement atau term and condition yg menyebut mengenai perkara ini?

terima kasih

zayed
13-10-03, 02:35 PM
salam,

Cuba check dalam policy.

When u want to buy insurance, always check with CLAIM OFFICER/DEPT ataupun ACTUARY DEPT. They know better what you can do, what u cannot etc. Dont ask the marketing people or the agent. They knew nothing. They only want to sell and get commission. This is where ethics come across. Even though you sell islamic product, tak boleh mendiamkan diri atau menipu.

wslm

hanis abdul
13-10-03, 03:58 PM
setahu aku...kita leh claim tapi bergantung kecederaan kita..claim akan bergantung pada anggota yg cedera tu.....tapi kalau dah kita beli polisi tu kenapa kita tak leh claim ikut procedur claim kita tu...eh betul ke aku tanya ni...zayed tolong aku....mungkin aku keliru...

zayed
13-10-03, 04:12 PM
Salam,

Hanis. Itu kalau u hanya ada satu policy. Kalau ada 2-3 policy, memang takkan dapat full amount.

hanis abdul
14-10-03, 01:24 PM
zayed....betul tak, akan dapat full amount jika u dah tak berupaya...tapi kalau ada polisi lain cam ner lak....

zayed
14-10-03, 02:01 PM
hanis,

For permanent disability (hilang upaya kekal), you will get based on the policy. Let's say it is written that for total permanent disability you will get a lump sum amount of RM50,000. This is referring to ONE Policy.

But as for multiple policy that you have, menurut PIAM (PERSATUAN INSURAN AM MALAYSIA):
"..hanya membayar mengikut perkadaran setimpal bagi mana-mana kerugian kerosakan pampasan, kos atau perbelanjaan."

Ada safety clause utk protect syarikat insurance. I guess consumer education is very important.

Wslm

regna_anger
14-10-03, 02:20 PM
tapi skang nie dah byk sykt lain yg nak tiru takaful ... camner plak ??

hanis abdul
15-10-03, 12:28 AM
zayed...kalau cam tu rugilah ada polisi yg byk ye....kenapa agen aku cakap lagi bagus...dia tipu aku la....

AbgLang
19-10-03, 02:43 PM
Salam..
bagi saya.. Takaful Malaysia ttp jadi pujaan hati.. hehehehe..

Untuk mendapatkan takaful Malaysia..dinasihatkan anda pergi ke mana2 pejabat takaful Malaysia.. dan bertanya kepada mereka. Kalau nak mudah.. dapatkan no telefon pejabat takaful malaysia terdekat kepada anda dan minta pekerja / promoter TM ni berjumpa anda. Insyallah.. mereka akan datang kepada anda.. lebih2 lagi kalau anda ajak kekawan anda sekali mendengar penerengan mereka.

Takaful2 lain yg mengamalkan konsep al-wakalah.. ada agen.. so carilah agen2 nya..

Di nasihatkan.. supaya anda mendapatkan nasihat dr agen tsbt.. cuma jangan percaya bulat2.. agen ni manusia juga.. ada yg suka putar belit.. yg hanya mau keuntungan. Dinasihatkan.. tiap fakta yg mereka berikan.. jangan lupa minta mereka mengemukakan fakta tersebut yg telah tertulis dalam polisi.. bukan main sebut hantam jak... adakalanya mereka senditi tidak tahu. tapi mereka hanya main hantam keromo utk meyakinkan pengguna....
kalau dah beli.. susah nak berundur lagi...

wassalam

invtr
13-01-04, 08:33 AM
a'kum

dah lama topik ni org bincangkan, saya baru search and found this topic.

ada few points nak tambah and bincang balik on top of apa yg korang dah bincangkan.. kalo salah tlg betulkan ye

1. syarikat takaful ada 4 je kat malaysia ni yang diluluskan oleh bank negara iaitu (disusun mengikut masa penubuhan.. yg paling tua di atas)

- takaful malaysia (http://www.takaful-malaysia.com)
- takaful nasional (http://www.takafulnasional.com.my)
- mayban takaful
- takaful ikhlas (http://www.takaful-ikhlas.com.my)

MT dan TM bernaung di bawah bank iaitu maybank dan bank islam dan tidak mempunyai wakil. yang ada ialah pegawai pemasaran.. biasanya kalo nak subscribe leh la ke bank berkenaan atau pejabat MT/TM

manakalah TN dan TI pula berasal dari syarikat insurans konvensional. tapi cuma sangat sedikit modal dikeluarkan utk syarikat takaful ini.. dan ia dikira modal yang 'bersih'. kalo nak tau lanjut leh call and wat appointment dgn wakil2 TN atau TI

insurans yang selain dari takaful (dari 4 syarikat di atas) dianggap haram merujuk kepada keputusan fatwa kebangsaan yang dikeluarkan pada 15 Feb 1979 :

Insuran nyawa sebagaimana yang dikendalikan oleh kebanyakan syarikat insuran yang ada pada hari ini adalah haram dan sebagai suatu muamalah yang fasad kerana aqadnya tidak sesuai dengan prinsip-prinsip Islam iaitu;

a. Mengandungi gharar (ketidak-tentuan)
b. Mengandungi unsur judi.
c. Mengandungi muamalah riba.

sumber: http://ii.islam.gov.my/e-fatwa/jakim/keputusan_view.asp?keyID=96

ada sesetengah syarikat insurans sekarng yang menawarkan produk pelaburan berunsurkan islam tetapi digandingkan dengan insurans konvensional. ini untuk menarik pelabur di kalangan umat islam.. ia diakui sendiri oleh CEO syarikat berkenaan dlm risalah yg diedarkan kepada agen2 mereka.

so fikir2kan lah sebelum membeli insurans.. hukumnya harus mengambil insurans konvensional SEKIRANYA TAKAFUL TIADA. tetapi skrang kita dah ada 4 pilihan takaful untuk dipilih.

untuk maklumat lanjut mengenai TAKAFUL NASIONAL atau soalan2 yang berkaitan bolehlah PM saya atau email wakil TN di salwasulaiman@yahoo.com

Humairah
13-01-04, 10:37 AM
:salam:

Nak tanya skit kalu MNI Takaful camner? Sajer nak tau sbb ceq ambik dua polisi satu lg yg tak ragu lagi Takaful Nasional...ni dah was2 nak teruskan MNI ni....bukan sbb fikir dr segi untung dan claim...tp kesian kat org tu....

Pls saper yg tau kasi info dan pendapat.

So nak tau ttg MNI..saper tau tak? Kalu tak ceq nak hentikan ajer....

talapia
13-01-04, 03:45 PM
ha.. ni berkenaan ngan mengambil bbrp polis tu.. camne kalau kita amik personal policy.. pastu at the same time is being covered by company nye policy. so if anything happens.. macam mana pembahagian refund?

invtr
13-01-04, 07:58 PM
Kiriman asal oleh Humairah
:salam:

Nak tanya skit kalu MNI Takaful camner? Sajer nak tau sbb ceq ambik dua polisi satu lg yg tak ragu lagi Takaful Nasional...ni dah was2 nak teruskan MNI ni....bukan sbb fikir dr segi untung dan claim...tp kesian kat org tu....

Pls saper yg tau kasi info dan pendapat.

So nak tau ttg MNI..saper tau tak? Kalu tak ceq nak hentikan ajer....

MNI Takaful tu nama lama bagi Takaful Nasional. Ia ditukar utk mengelakkan kekeliruan orang ramai dengan MNI insurance yang mengamalkan konsep insurans konvensional (bukan secara islam)..

kalo nak make sure, call je balik wakil/syarikat utk sahkan..



------------------------------------------------------------
untuk maklumat lanjut mengenai Takaful Nasional atau soalan2 yang berkaitan bolehlah PM saya atau email wakil TN di salwasulaiman@yahoo.com

Kakaroct
18-01-04, 04:22 AM
insurance ni halal ker?
Ader orang kata insurance ni macam gadai nyawa..
tu yang buat aku was-was..
Ader sapa2 boleh jelaskan tak..
ok TQ

invtr
18-01-04, 10:54 PM
cara pengurusan insurans tu yang salah. sbb tu keluarnya takaful. konsep insurans tu tak salah, kita bukan gadai nyawa, kita bantu-membantu meringankan beban org yang ditimpa musibah..

macam jugak khairat kematian.. kita kumpul duit sikit2 dari semua ahli khariah dan bila ada org meninggal, duit tu akan digunakan..

takaful/insurans tu gunanya untuk melindungi sesiapa yang berpendapatan dimana pada satu masa mungkin dia mati atau tidak berupaya lagi untuk bekerja.

so masa ni lah gunanya takaful untuk membiayai waris yang tinggal seperti anak dan isteri. takde la perlu meminta belas kasihan orang lain..

menjawab soalan tak?? :)

kalau nak tau lanjut tentang takaful sila ke

http://hartanah.net/tn/

puaka_biru
04-05-06, 01:55 PM
Ada sapa wakil insuran ndak komen pasal issue ni?

puaka_biru
04-05-06, 01:58 PM
sumber: http://ii.islam.gov.my/e-fatwa/jaki...ew.asp?keyID=96

link url ni tak leh bukak la.....

gadIs8
04-05-06, 02:32 PM
BAGI aku takaful-ikhlas... ade ciri² Islam... :-)

Gripen
04-05-06, 03:04 PM
Apa dia ciri2 Islam,ceritakan sikit? Apa beza konvensional dan Islamic?

gadIs8
04-05-06, 03:18 PM
laa....nk detail ker...?? masukla website takaful-ikhlas. me tak pandai nk eleborate. Me tau ni pun, dr one of my frenz, who working there..

Gripen
04-05-06, 03:34 PM
Insuran nyawa sebagaimana yang dikendalikan oleh kebanyakan syarikat insuran yang ada pada hari ini adalah haram dan sebagai suatu muamalah yang fasad kerana aqadnya tidak sesuai dengan prinsip-prinsip Islam iaitu;

a. Mengandungi gharar (ketidak-tentuan)
b. Mengandungi unsur judi.
c. Mengandungi muamalah riba.

Cuma nak pahamkan konsep diatas. Bagaimana insurans konvensional bileh di anggar tidak tentu,judi dan riba? Kalau mungkin gharar,bukankah setiap kompeni insurans mempunyai ahli2 'actuarist' yang membuat 'risk estimation'? Kalau konsep ini salah dari segi Islam,bagaimakah insurans Islam membuat 'risk estimate'?
Muamalah riba ni,mungkin tepat kerana duit insurans itu kalau bukan kompeni2 Islam dilaburkan ke kompeni2 yang terlibat secara lansung dengan perjudian,arak dll.
Tapi macam Takaful Maybank,bukankah dia anak syaritkat Mayban Berhad yang mengamalkan perbankan riba? Macam mana pulak tuh. Tabung Haji pulak,memiliki saham dalam Country Heights,company yang mempunyai anak syaritkat lumba kuda. Tabung Haji mempunyai anak syarikat TH Plantation yang diniagakan dibursa saham,bukankah 'trading; itu haram kerana ia seakan2 berjudi dan mengaut untung atas kerugian orang lain?
Jadi macam mana nih? Semua yang halal,tidak 100% halal,ada gak unsur2 riba. Kalau air dalam gelas kita titiskan setitik arak,satu cawan tuh haram diminum. Jadi kalau isu insurans nih,macam mana?

Eastine_amilin
04-05-06, 03:56 PM
East,hubby east anak east dua owang tu semua amik Takafur Nasional...

So far setakat ini East tak pernah buat claim le...

Yang East suka amik insurant ini dia dah siap2 potong dlm rm2 untuk di sedekah kan pd mana2 badan yg memerlukan(cara Islam ),secara automatik dia dah buat pahala dari duit yg kita carum kan setiap bulan.Tak rugi mana pun klu dia amik rm2 klu caruman kita rm100

Hampir 10 tahun east dgn insurant ini

Nasihat East sape2 yg nak amik insurant tgok polisi dulu dan klu boleh pastikan yg berkonsepkan "Islam"..

Gripen
04-05-06, 05:58 PM
Kalau ada masa,cuba baca whitepaper karangan Muhammad Anwar bertajuk Comparative Study of Insurance and Takafol (Islamic Insurance) dari website www.islamicfiance.com.

http://www.financeinislam.com/article/3_37/1/521

Tapi terus terang aku cakap kat sini and aku pegang pada kata2 aku,Islamic Banking or Takaful or Islamic Insurance is NOT 100% Islamic dari segi pelaksanaannya. Islam pada nama dan label sahaja,bagi aku marketing strategy nak orang Melayu beli insurans. Pasal Melayu ni kalau tulis Islam atau Halal,senang jek nak percaya tanpa was-was.
So,aku sarankan,bacalah,cariklah jawapan anda sendiri dan jangan hanya membiarkan keputusan Islamic ke tak skim insurans kepada ejen2 atau penjual2 insurans. Jadilah pengguna yang bijak,terutama bab halal dan haram.

jhana
04-05-06, 11:27 PM
Tapi terus terang aku cakap kat sini and aku pegang pada kata2 aku,Islamic Banking or Takaful or Islamic Insurance is NOT 100% Islamic dari segi pelaksanaannya. Islam pada nama dan label sahaja,bagi aku marketing strategy nak orang Melayu beli insurans. Pasal Melayu ni kalau tulis Islam atau Halal,senang jek nak percaya tanpa was-was.


You punya conclusion that it does not make any difference to take either takaful or conventional insurance flies against the fatwa yg Majlis Fatwa Kebangsaan dah keluarkan. Unless you tell me you are better qualified than those sitting in the Majlis. Be careful, bahaya bang kalau main cakap sedap mulut macam our Dr M & Astora Jebat. Takut ada negative effect kat akidah

jhana
05-05-06, 12:04 AM
[QUOTE=Gripen]
Tapi macam Takaful Maybank,bukankah dia anak syaritkat Mayban Berhad yang mengamalkan perbankan riba?


Apa kena mengena Takaful Maybank dengan shareholder dia pulak? If we put in money in Takaful Maybank, does it matter who the shareholders is? They are different entities. Lainlah kalau Takaful Malaysia onlends the money to its parent (Maybank) yg gunakan duit untuk conventional loan ie riba. Kalau ikut logik you, sapa pergi Genting Highlands Amusement Park tu berdosa sbb shareholder dia run Genting casino. What about makanan Nestle? Tak boleh makan sbb shareholder dia Nestle Swiss org kapir?

Macam mana pulak tuh. Tabung Haji pulak,memiliki saham dalam Country Heights,company yang mempunyai anak syaritkat lumba kuda.

AFAIK, Tabung Haji is only allowed to invest in shares of companies listed under the Syariah Compliant List as approved by the Syariah Advisory Council of Securities Commission. SC ada criteria sendiri untuk tetapkan apa yg syariah compliant atau tak. Refer to Syariah Council Guidelines (http://www.sc.com.my/eng/html/icm/sas/syariahapr2006.pdf) .

Tabung Haji mempunyai anak syarikat TH Plantation yang diniagakan dibursa saham,bukankah 'trading; itu haram kerana ia seakan2 berjudi dan mengaut untung atas kerugian orang lain?

Mana you dapat fatwa ni kata trading in shares haram? Mazhab Gripen tak boleh pakai oi unless you nak jadi Ayah Gripen.

Gripen
05-05-06, 04:16 PM
Do you only have to refer to Majlis Fatwa Kebangaan or Majlis Ulama Malaysia? How convinient of you Jhana just to merely pick and choose the fatwa you like and disaprove the ones you don't like or understand. Rokok itu haram,fatwa dah dikeluarkan,are you even aware? An article publish in Al-Ilam few years ago recommends that ASN/ASB is haram,are you aware?

Are you even aware of how Islamic Banking or Finance is regulated in this country? FYI and for the good of others,Islamic Banking or any Islamic commerce is not regulated by the Syariah Courts,it is delt by the Civil Court and no referrence to Syariah Court is required in passing judgement. Therefore,it makes it all complicated when a non-muslim judge calls a judgement on an Islamic commerce issue. Fundementally,its already flawed.

If you work for 7-Eleven and 7-Eleven sells alchohol,does it makes your rezeki halal? Why don't you apply the same concept to banks and financial institution. Selective deduction of ideas doesn't really help to convince people and neither safe for consumption Jhana.

What comes to you Jhana when foriegn Ulama's like Yusof Al-Qadrawi summons muslim to boycott Danish products on the wake of the Prophets caricutur? Do you feel comfortable buying Jaffa Orange eventhough they are from Israel. To you,what difference does it make,an orange is an orange and there's nothing wrong with buying a set of Lego for your children eventhough muslims around the world are saying no to Danish products. Do you feel proud of going to Genting amusement park eventhough its main business is casino? Do think is ok for a muslim to work in Guiness or Carlsberg IT Department? If you answer yes to any of the above,then by all means,re-check your believes.

Please,do yourself a favor and read through the articles publish in FinanceInIslam,attend seminars and talks on Islamic Finance and Banking before coming to a conclusion of wheter Takaful or Insurance is 100% halal and follows the syariah. Do keep an open mind by not limiting your resouces from only Malaysia,else you'll be dumbfounded since Malaysia insn't exactly a full fledge Muslim country.

To some people,its easy for them to say 'halal' because they have vested intrest in the things they do,and telling them otherwise is as good as none. They accept mainsteam ideas and refuse to widen thier search for the truth because they know the answer they seek may not favor thier choice. When KFC licensed was suspended for not complying to Islamic guidlines of slaughtering by Jabatan Perdana Menteri,KFC issued thier own version of Halal by Penasihat Syariah KFC and this went on for years. Hardly any complains or issuance of fatwa from Majlis Fatwa Kebangsaan or any of these goverment backed Islamic body. Only 'alternatives' and 'non-mainstream' sources like PPIM,Harakah etc brought made a big deal about this issue.

I have met both Astora Jabat and Tun Dr. Mahathir on the same occasion. I have listen to thier arguments from basic fardu ain like solat to issues of Islamic economy. Both of them seems to have a 'liberal' and 'simplistic' approach towards Islam,I pray that you don't fall into thier bandwagons.

Ayah Pin dan segala macam ajaran sesat sememangnya sesat,tapi lebih merbahaya dan sesat lagi menyesatkan orang Islam yang sewenang-wenangnya meng'Halal'kan yang haram atau was2 atau pun syubahat untuk kepentingan sendiri.

jhana
05-05-06, 11:38 PM
Do you only have to refer to Majlis Fatwa Kebangaan or Majlis Ulama Malaysia? How convinient of you Jhana just to merely pick and choose the fatwa you like and disaprove the ones you don't like or understand. Rokok itu haram,fatwa dah dikeluarkan,are you even aware? An article publish in Al-Ilam few years ago recommends that ASN/ASB is haram,are you aware?

Sapa kata I pick n choose? My point is that lets be consistent & respect the Majlis Fatwa Kebangsaan. Instead you yg pick n choose sbb bila tak suka you pilih fatwa negara lain. ASB/ASN haram? everybody knows that - nenek aku pun tahu dah lama. I knew abt this zaman 80an lagi. Bukan you sorang yang tahu everything kat dunia ni, org lain pun tahu juga. PNB never disguised the fact that ASN/ASB are not halal as they disclose investments in Magnum etc. Rokok pun ada Mufti Selangor dah keluarkan kenyataan rokok haram dlm front page paper 10 years dulu. What is your point that I tahu ke tak tahu rokok/ASN/ASB tu haram. I tahu! My point is that we are not ulama & therefore leave the decision on whether to cap benda tu haram ke halal on those yg ada ilmu & not just belajar sendiri. You ada Al-Azhar degree ke? If not, jgn taksub sgt dgn kepandaian you. A lot of intelligent ppl like you & Dr M fall into your trap thinking that since I'm intelligent, I must know or understand better than everybody, even those yg lebih arif dlm hal agama.

If you work for 7-Eleven and 7-Eleven sells alchohol,does it makes your rezeki halal? Why don't you apply the same concept to banks and financial institution. Selective deduction of ideas doesn't really help to convince people and neither safe for consumption Jhana.

Yes, I & all in the Islamic banking industry acknowledge that the implementation is not 100% Syariah compliant but my point is that you cannot say that because of this, it would be better to choose the conventional insurance/banking over takaful/islamic banking. Choosing takaful/Islamic banking is choosing the lesser of 2 evils.

What comes to you Jhana when foriegn Ulama's like Yusof Al-Qadrawi summons muslim to boycott Danish products on the wake of the Prophets caricutur? Do you feel comfortable buying Jaffa Orange eventhough they are from Israel. To you,what difference does it make,an orange is an orange and there's nothing wrong with buying a set of Lego for your children eventhough muslims around the world are saying no to Danish products.

Mana you tahu I tak boycott Danish products or jaffa orange? FYI, I am very dilligent when it comes to buying things yg support the Islamic nations & those who effectively are the enemies of Islam. I remember reading in the forum abt you were saying that you berkawan dgn nerds yg suka hang around kat Starbucks. Exact Quote "Nerd ni ada gak groupies dia,kalau kat KLCC,tuh yang dok ramai2 buat WiFi party kat any public and free WiFi spots mcm Starbucks with thier notebooks and PSPs. Kalau kat Uni,kelab2 mcm Chess,Programming etc semua majoriti nerds. Aku suka kawan ngan nerds,simbiosis relationship,they help me with assignments,I hook them out with someone.." Don't you know that the owner/founder of Starbucks is an active supporter of the Zionist regime? Plus Jakim has raised doubts on whether the coffee at Starbucks is halal. Have you tried to educate your nerd friends that RM1 they spend at starbucks is contributing to the deaths of the Palestinians?

Do you feel proud of going to Genting amusement park eventhough its main business is casino? Do think is ok for a muslim to work in Guiness or Carlsberg IT Department? If you answer yes to any of the above,then by all means,re-check your believes.

You are changing the subject & twisting my words. My point is & please concentrate now - A COMPANY & ITS SHAREHOLDERS ARE 2 DIFFERENT ENTITIES! Paham tak concept different entities? Kalau shareholder buat benda haram (as in Maybank as in the original discussion), this does not mean that anak syarikatnya (Takaful Maybank) is also haram. I tak pernah kata halal kerja kat Guiness atau Carlsberg - check balik my post. Nak kata proud pergi Genting Amusement Park pulak, mana I kata I proud pergi sana? I cakap just because shareholder dia Genting runs a casino, this doesn't mean that going to the Amusement park is haram. Ada fatwa kata ni haram? Memang la tak elok pergi genting tu, buat apa support org kapir & tambah2 lagi Genting tu merosakkan environment. Don't change the subject unless you dah tak ada modal & terpaksa tukar subject just to satisfy your ego.

I have met both Astora Jabat and Tun Dr. Mahathir on the same occasion. I have listen to thier arguments from basic fardu ain like solat to issues of Islamic economy. Both of them seems to have a 'liberal' and 'simplistic' approach towards Islam,I pray that you don't fall into thier bandwagons.

Ai, mengabo ke jumpa Dr M & Astora? Tahu la you ni org glamour & org intellegentsia, sbb tu boleh jumpa org mcm tu. Actually I risau you are turning into these 2 perasan pandais & using their logic to interpret Islamic whereas dia org tak ada kepakaran. My whole point is kalau tak ada kepakaran dlm Islam, jgn memandai2. Going to seminar & reading books without bimbingan dari ulama does not constitute kepakaran. Follow the example of Raja petra - dia berguru dgn Tn Haji Hadi Awang & he does not mouth off on subjects yg dia tak ada kepakaran

Ayah Pin dan segala macam ajaran sesat sememangnya sesat,tapi lebih merbahaya dan sesat lagi menyesatkan orang Islam yang sewenang-wenangnya meng'Halal'kan yang haram atau was2 atau pun syubahat untuk kepentingan sendiri.

Thats exactly my point! Follow the ulama, jgn memandai2 buat conclusion sendiri.

sayadansaya
06-05-06, 07:30 AM
Assalamualaikum!

You would have to stop whatever you're doing my friends. Immediately. Check you intent again my friend. Do you still have the same intent now compared to the one you have at the beginning of your first writing?

Check! are you still following your intent yg murni mula²nya untuk berbincang atau sekarang sudah mula berbaur nafsu, ego dan yg sewaktu dengannya? Baik² jangan terjebak dgn tipudaya yg biasa. Boleh berbeza pendapat tidak mengapa. Itu menunjukkan betapa kebesaran Allah Ta'ala dan keagungannya melampaui segalanya. Tetapi bab halal dan haram adalah topik yg merbahaya.

Menghalalkan yg haram dan mengharamkan yg halal adalah sesuatu yg teramat serious. Yg haram tetap haram dan yg halal tetap halal. Yg halal itu terang dan yg haram itu terang. So, jangan terpedaya dgn tipudaya syaitan.

Maaf, tidaklah aku mengatakan kamu salah tetapi hanya minta kamu berhati². Bukankah dulu pernah berbincang kenapa mengaji perlu berguru. Inilah sebabnya kerana tipudaya iblis teramatlah halus. Andai kamu menghalalkan yg haram atau mengharamkan yg halal, secara terang atau tersembunyi maka Iblislah yg dicanangkan sebagai UNDISPUTED CHAMPION.

Maaf, dari penulisan, kamu memang berpelajaran tetapi dari aku yg bodoh...... berhati-hatilah.

Gripen
06-05-06, 07:32 AM
Jhana,

I stand corrected and I hope you will take it with an open mind to your selective deductions and closed view of only relying to 'mainstream local ulama's' for direction. Since you've so found of quoting Raja Petra,why don't you read his blog and see how profoundly he rejects our local sitting of ulama's. Ulama's are human and make mistake,so where is the task of 'ordinary' muslim to use thier God given brain to think for themselves. Its so easy and convient just to put everything on the shoulders of ulama and say 'Well ulama tak cakap pun,therefore must be halal'. Think again. Please,do yourself a favor and since you mentioned Raja Petra,why don't you do some 'deep' reading and try to 'absorb' it,and Bakri Musa tuh.

For that 'nerd groupy at Starbucks',do read carefully Jhana. In your attempt to release your 'anger and frustration' it has surely clouded your mind. Few weeks ago,in the 'Game Section' of Bincang.net the 'PSP gamers were having a gathering at Starbucks' and not myself. In attempt to smear me,you even misquoted discredit the original poster of the section :). How careless.

Only Al-Azharian can comment on religious matters? So therefore,if you're not from Harvard or London School of Economics,we do not have rights to argue on matters pertaining to economy let alone insurance? Oh,the audacity. Another perfect example of a umat who leaves the solely the thinking part to others and follow them so they may then take no blaim when the teaching is indeed wrong. If there's one thing Allah has given to men and not other being,its the 'akal' and 'right to choose'. In your position,you prefer to leave the 'akal' at the doorstep.

You can talk about 2 different entities till the cows come home Jhana. Just for your information and other here,Maybank Islamic Banking is not as performing as other of Maybanks consumer banking products. To ensure liquidity,the management of Maybank 'top up' Islamic Banking funds from conventional or riba' based funds. I know this for a fact. So,where do you draw the line between riba' and riba'less islamic banking if you're so profoundly arguing on 'seperate' entities? In Islam Jhana,2 wrongs dont make a right,maybe in conventional of maybe Islam Hadari,it does but in Islam 2 wrongs is still wrong.

Jhana,I hope by now you have simmered down. It was never my intention of arguing with you,and I was merely attacking the idea,not the person. However,it seems you have chosen the latter. Islamic insurance or takaful implementation in malaysia is still flawed and far from being 100% Islamic and that was my point. The elements of gharar,riba and maisir accused of being practised in conventional insurance is also being practised in our Takaful. As for the goodness of yourself,follow the Ulama and seek your own revelation to as Ulama can't answer for you in the day of judgement,thats why Allah gives us 'akal'. Else,he would only give the ulama akal and have us merely following them without reasoning.

Amen.

Gripen
06-05-06, 07:40 AM
I. INTRODUCTION

Ibn Abidin (1784-1836) was the first scholar in the Muslim world to discuss the meaning and legal character of insurance.1 Islamicity of insurance has been under discussion since then. Opinions regarding legitimacy, adoption, and adaptability of insurance are numerous. Recently, however, a consensus was emerging for adapting insurance in the name of takafol and solidarity. As a result, several Islamic takafols and solidarity companies have been established since 1979.

During the last decade the Council of Islamic Ideology Pakistan (CIIP) reviewed the operations of the existing takafols in order to find a suitable model for Pakistan.2 While declaring all of them incompatible with the injunctions of Islam, the CIIP proposed its own model of takafol, instead. Its rejection of existing takafols is a little paradoxical since the operations of all the takafols are claimed to be compatible with the Shariah. Each takafol guarantees Shariah compatibility of its operations by subjecting itself to the dictates of a Shariah Supervisory Board, which are empowered to review the company's practices, contracts, transactions and operations. This paper attempts to delineate the points of contact and convergence between insurance and takafol, and to make recommendations for possible improvement in the takafol concept. The study is organised as follows: Islamic debate on insurance, with special reference to its application to takafols, is reviewed in Section II. Pertinent operational features of takafols are compared with insurance in Section III. The CIIP model is examined in Section IV. The final section features proposals meant to augment the conformity of takafol with the principles of Shariah.

II. ISLAMICITY OF INSURANCE

Insurance is an exchange contract. Ibn Abidin rejected it as it did not fit in the exchange contracts known in Islam. The first phase of acceptance of insurance took place when the so called Modernists became the trend-setters for Muslim society, particularly under the leadership of Muhammad Abduh. A series of attempts were made to insert insurance into permitted contracts and to prove its legality.3 A correspondent of Pakistan, and Gulf Economists cites fatawa (religious rulings) of prominent ulema (Islamic scholars) of different mazahib (Islamic schools of thought)4 generally favouring insurance, and refuting the presence of riba (usury and interest), mai'sar (gambling) and gharar (indeterminacy) therein. Another survey of fatawa for and against the contract of insurance issued up to 1965 is given in Muslehuddin.5

In its 1972 meeting the Islamic Studies Conference (ISC) considered eighty opinions on insurance submitted by scholars worldwide, but adjourned without making final recommendations, leaving the topic pending for further study.6 Interestingly, fuqaha have seldom given unanimous recommendations on the issue of insurance. For instance, recommendations of the Majlis Fiqhi Islami were dissented by Sheikh Mustafa Zarqa and of CIIP were dissented by Abdul Malik Irfani.7

Positions taken by scholars on insurance differ depending on their views regarding presence of gharar, riba, and gambling in insurance contracts. Gambling and riba are condemned in the Qur'an while condemnation of gharar is supported by (chained) Ahadith (Prophet’s rulings).8

Insurance is blamed for gharar because, at the time of the contract, the insured are uncertain about (i) occurrence of indemnity, (ii) amount accrued in case of indemnity, and (iii) the timing of indemnity. But supporters of insurance argue that these matters are unknown only at the individual level, while at the collective level, they are scientifically determined by statistical laws of large numbers, actuary and probability. It would not be proper to prohibit it due to gharar at the individual level.9

Gharar inherent in the contract of insurance is condoned under the doctrines of darura (necessity) and mosalahah (public interest). Siddiqi10 emphasises that the present system of wealth creation and the present level of civilisation is simply inconceivable without recourse to insurance. Insurance is important, he argues, for the smooth flow of business activity and production processes; large-scale supply of capital; availability of goods requiring a long production period; and reduction in cost of goods. Others argue that insurance is a hedging against misfortunes through personal means rather than relying on the public means or family support, which may not be realised.11

Insurance is declared mai'sar because the policy holders are seen to bet premiums on the condition that the insurer will make payment (indemnity) on the happening of a specified event. The advocates of insurance argue that insurance is the contract of indemnity,12 which is altogether different from gambling. A specified event must occur by the appointed time and one of the parties must win or lose in gambling. In the case of insurance, the specified event may or may not happen during the policy period. But the indeterminacy of event used to disclaim gambling can be cited as a reason for gharar. Moreover, the insured holds a specific financial interest, called insurable interest, in the subject-matter of insurance. He is entitled to compensation only if he suffers any loss or damage and indemnity is limited to the actual loss or damage. In gambling, the parties have no other interest than the sum to be won or lost by the determination of an event. They further argue that the act of gambling creates a new risk while insurance tries to manage inherent, though predictable, risks to make losses bearable to the individuals susceptible to such risks. The risk of financial loss courted by a gambler can be avoided if desired, but the inherent risks cannot be avoided. Insured persons seek protection against the financial loss which may result from such risks.13

Riba refers to transactions involving unequal exchange of the same thing. Insurance is viewed as unequal exchange of money in premiums and compensations. In fact, money paid in premiums, never equals the money received in indemnity. The insured receives less or nothing, as the case may be, in exchange of the premium when (i) he withdraws the policy, (ii) defaults on premiums, (iii) does not experience peril deserving indemnity and (iv) the insurance contract is declared void due to any other reason. Moreover, compensation received from insurers may be far greater than the premiums if a peril strikes. So riba accrues to the insured if the indemnity is more than the premium and to the insurers when compensation is nil or falls short of premiums. Therefore insurance contract, interpreted as exchange of money, cannot be free from riba. Moreover, there is riba beyond the riba embedded in the insurance contracts since the premium is invested by insurers in interest-bearing securities.

The advocates of insurance argue that there is no riba in insurance because neither is the premium a loan nor compensation a returning of the loan with an incremental amount. The money received in claim by the insured neither depends on the elapsed period nor on the total money in the premium. The amount actually depends on the extent of financial loss incurred in consequence of a peril. Such increment is not riba.14

It is also argued that individuals engage in riba transactions with the sole purpose of monetary gains. Insurance is a systematic pooling of individual resources to cover collectively the expected inherent risks of loss that each and every member faces. The purpose of an insurance policy is to protect, not to enhance, the financial position of the insured.15

Insurance is also considered unlawful because the compensation is given to nominees, which is contrary to the Islamic laws of inheritance.

Qur'an16 ordains compensation including monetary benefits to the victim's family for killing someone by mistake. Therefore, in principle, there is no harm in obtaining monetary gains against this death of a family member which seemingly justifies conduct of life insurance. In fact, liability insurance covering compensation to victims of (say) accidents shall be made compulsory in Muslim countries to ensure compliance with the Qur'anic injunction, particularly when damage is done by the financially weak or runaway aggressors.

Insurance is also an essential part of banking and international trade transactions. For instance, banks do not negotiate the international bills of exchange unless the goods are insured against Marine insurance and do not finance large industrial projects without an insurance arrangement.

Omar Farrukh argues that "insurance may be equated with an agreement between two parties in which one gives a guarantee to the other regarding some property in possession of the other against its perishing, undergoing startling degradation or deviating from its normal course of development Islam admits some aspects of this guarantee."17 Obviously, if insurance is viewed as a contract of guarantee, rather than an exchange of money, then it is absolved of contractual riba.

However, commercial insurance has been generally condemned while mutual insurance, organised as a private or a public venture, is commended.18 Commercial insurance is condemned because insurers are alleged to "profit out of the weakness of individual insurees".19 But, barring the profit motive, mutual and commercial insurance are not very different.20 Profit-seeking activities are not prohibited in Islam. Moreover, insurance performs security functions similar to zakah, although to different categories of people. As managers of zakah are entitled to a remuneration from zakah fund then, in principle, the managers of insurance should not be denied profits for performing insurance services.

In a nutshell, insurance itself is not contrary to Islam. However, the conduct of insurance is suspect mainly on account of gharar, riba and gambling.

III. PRINCIPLES AND PRACTICES OF TAKAFOLS21

As noted above, all banks require insurance on their financing transactions. Success of Islamic banks has encouraged them to establish their own takafols which, among other things, lend greater credibility to their banking operations.

Takafol is an alternative form of insurance. Consequently many of the principles and practices of insurance equally apply to takafol. Takafols cover general as well as life insurance.

General takafols are short term contracts for protection of potential material losses resulting from specified catastrophes. Participants' installments are called tabaru (donation) by STMSB (Syarikat Takafol Malaysia Sendrian Berhad) and takafol by other companies. Amount of takafol contributions varies, as in insurance, according to the value to the property to be covered under the general takafol scheme. Company invests the tabaru funds, and the profits accrued there from are allocated between the fund and the management on the basis of mudaraba. Indemnity is paid out of the tabaru fund. Operational costs including reinsurance costs and other reserves are also deducted from the tabaru fund. If the fund generates net surplus then, unlike insurance, surplus is shared between participants and the company. The STMSB and IAIC (Islamic Arab Insurance Company) pay surplus only to those participants who did not incur claims, but, IICS (Islamic Insurance Company Sudan) pays surplus to all participants. The IICS receives a share of profits if offered by the reinsurers and the participants are automatically elected to a policy holders committee if their premiums are above 1,000 Sudanese Pounds. The CIIP rejected the IAIC model because, in its view, all conditions of occidental insurance are retained under Islamic nomenclature.22 The IICS model was also rejected because of the distribution of surplus from the takafol fund.

According to the CIIP,23 if the premium is considered debt then all principal amount must be returned and if it is considered investment then profits of some participants cannot be diverted in favour of others.

In sum, in case of general insurance, there is no substantive difference between tabaru and premium from the insured point of view as the entire contributions of the participants are treated tabaru, like premium in insurance. The contributions, like premium, depend on the value of the property to be covered. But, unlike insurance, takafol participants are entitled to surplus in the tabaru fund, if any.

Islamic life insurance is organised in the name of family takafol by the STMSB, Solidarity Modarabas by the IICG (Islamic Investment Company of the Gulf) and the ITCL (Islamic Takafol Company Luxembourg), and by the IICS. Premiums, unlike insurance, are determined by the participants themselves depending on their financial strength. Instalments paid by the participants are divided into takafol, also called tabaru, account and participants' mudaraba investment account by the STMSB, the ITCL and the ITCB (Islamic Takafol Company Bahrain). The proportion for tabaru fund, like insurance, is calculated on actuarial basis which varies according to the age and participation period of the participants. In the case of ITCL, 2.5 percent to 10 percent of instalments go to takafol fund and the balance goes to the mudaraba investment account of the participants.

Insurance benefits are paid from the tabaru fund. Participants pledge to make additional contributions if the takafol fund proves insufficient. However, in reality, companies prefer to carry such deficits forward till the takafol fund enjoys surplus. In the meanwhile, companies finance the deficits on the basis of interest-free loans.

All instalments of participants in the IICS and the IICG are treated mudaraba investments. The takafol fund is generated from the profits on the modarabas. Some companies issue renewable modaraba certificates of one year duration. In the case of IICG, each subscriber can participate in mudaraba till the age of 60 or death whichever comes first. Participants can buy multiple certificates. The certificates are non-negotiable and non-transferable instruments. The IICS and IICG pay takafol benefits, sometimes called solidarity benefits, from the mudaraba profits.

The actual operating expenses are charged from the Mudaraba account by the ITCL, IICG and the IICS. In the case of IICG and ITCL, an issue fee is charged to cover the management expenses partially. The IICS does not charge management expenses from the mudaraba accounts. Likewise, the STMSB pays operating expenditures from its own profits accrued from takafols and shareholders' fund.

Profits from the mudaraba investments are shared between the participants and the companies in pre-agreed ratios. The profits among the participants' account and takafol company are shared in the ratio 70:30 in STMSB, 80:20 in ITCL, and 90:10 in IICS.

Participants are entitled to reimbursements upon maturity, withdrawal and, in some cases, upon disablement. Upon, death of a participant, his heirs are entitled to takafol benefits. The takafol benefits are reimbursed according to the Islamic inheritance laws. Benefits are payable to the nominees, in case of STMSB, as under insurance contracts because the nominees are considered trustees of the heirs of the deceased participants. If a participant lives till the maturity of the takafol contract, he is entitled to all his mudaraba investment including its profits. In addition, the STMSB pays net surplus from the tabaru account as well. The CIIP did not deliver any judgement on the STMSB due to lack of information. But the STMSB model will be disqualified on the same basis as the IAIC has been.

If a participant withdraws before the maturity of contract then the money in the investment account is paid as surrender benefits. However, participants may withdraw only after participating for a minimum of two years in the case of ITCL and IICG. In the case of IICG, withdrawing participants have to relinquish 5 percent of their account in consequence of a sudden withdrawal. This money is, reinvested in favour of other participants.

If a member is disabled, the IICS waives future instalments and pays all the benefits to the disabled participants out of the mudaraba profits of the participants. In the case of the death of a participant, his heirs are entitled to full value of the deceased participant's share in the mudaraba investment account plus money equal to all unpaid instalments, due to be paid in future if he lived, from the takafol account. In the case of the IICG, the solidarity benefits are paid only if not less than a year has elapsed, instalments were paid regularly, and no withdrawal request has been made.

In the case of family takafol in the STMSB, tabaru contribution varies, like the insurance premium, with the length as well as the maturity of the takafol plan. Calculation of tabaru, like premium, is based on the principles of actuary. The takafol companies satisfy themselves regarding the health condition of the clients. Instalments are to be paid in advance as, premium. Participants can withdraw from the takafol schemes after a specified period, as in the case of insurance, but their contributions to tabaru, like the insurance premium, are forfeited.

Like insurance, takafol is concerned with uncertain future events which produce losses; and the special legal rules governing insurance contracts similarly apply to takafol. Participants cannot interfere with the management activities as the management assumes full authority. However, if a loss occurs due to disrespect of modaraba conditions, the takafol companies will bear those losses.

Takafol, like insurance, is based on the principles of insurable interest, indemnity, subrogation, and utmost good faith. The utmost good faith clause is required for the disclosure of all material facts, a condition commended in Islam. Unfortunately, insurers misuse it arid try to avoid contracts. Subrogation entitles insurers to claim from a third party on behalf of the insured. Indemnity implies that a claim can be made only to the extent of actual financial loss to the insured. Indemnity and subrogation together ensure compliance with the requirements of insurable interest. Insurable interest itself ensures that a client can obtain insurance only if susceptible to loss for which insurance in sought.24 Takafol companies perform entrepreneurial and managerial tasks. But management of takafol funds, unlike insurance premiums, is kept separate from the management of shareholders' funds. Even the rules to resolve takafol disputes are similar to those for insurance. All takafol companies have recourse to reinsurance companies. In insurance, any insurance surplus becomes profit of the company (shareholders) while takafol surplus is shared between the participants and the management (company) in the prescribed ratios.

Takafols do buy reinsurance, like these insurance companies, because existing retakafol companies are very few and too new for handling the entire retakafol needs of existing takafol companies. However, the takafol companies deal with them on a net basis in order to minimise their indulgence in riba practices of reinsurers.

In sum, takafols are different from insurance in several respects. Takafol differs from conventional insurance in the sense that the company manages and employs the funds for investment, business and administration on behalf of the participants. Profits attributed to the participants' funds are shared between the takafol company and the participants according to an agreed formula. In case of insurance, the premium funds become property of the company and any profits or losses go to the company's account.

The takafols need to invest funds in long-term as well as in short-term avenues to match their liquidity requirements. Takafol companies, unlike insurance, certainly face difficulties in making short-term investments on and interest-free basis. Otherwise, the takafols and the insurance companies are at liberty to employ funds in projects of their choice. Therefore, one may conclude that the takafol companies primarily operate on similar lines as insurance companies, although they may have to select only halal projects to meet Shariah requirements.

IV. COMPARISON OF CIIP MODEL AND EXISTING TAKAFOLS

The 1984 report of the CUP maintains that premium is paid against an insured sum making the insurance contract an exchange contract. The insurance contracts contain prohibited elements including gharar, gambling and riba.25 Therefore, "insurance in all its forms, except postal insurance in Pakistan, is wrong, wicked, unlawful, prohibited and unenforceable".26

According to the CIIP 1984 report, cooperative insurance based on tabaru, ta'awan, tadhaman, and takafol containing, among others, the following characteristics would be lawful:27 (i) when an insured is paid a certain sum at the happening of an incidence, the sum paid is considered tabaru from all the Insured. In such cases, the presence of gharar is accepted, (ii) as cooperative insurance is not meant to receive profit so gambling and riba will not be present hi it, and (iii) the insured are eligible for receiving qard al-hasan from the insurance fund. As pointed out earlier, the CIIP has also discarded existing takafols which are considered Islamic alternatives to insurance. The CIIP has recommended a takafol model which is claimed to be "in complete agreement with Islamic teachings".28 But, there are striking similarities between the existing takafols and the model proposed by the CIIP. To avoid repetition of conditions discussed earlier, only the distinguishing features of the CIIP model are presented here.

The CIIP recommended that the takafol business shall be conducted by an autonomous, non-profit, state organisation. The takafol fund be established,' as in other takafols, and it shall be a permanent fund, with the status of a waqf29 (endowment). Instalments paid by the participants towards short-term general insurance will be added to the takafol fund. Instalments paid for long-term insurance plans will be divided into modaraba (or musharakah) investment and takafol contributions. Contributions of participants to the takafol fund shall be non-refundable, although they shall be entitled to receive indemnity and compensation from the fund. Administrative expenses for the fund be covered from the profits on the mudaraba investments It is also recommended that a specified percentage of the takafol fund be reserved for assistance of deserving non-participants. The CIIP recommends state-run insurance30 which is all right in principle, but is doomed to failure in reality. State-run enterprises are notoriously inefficient. This fact is apparent from the collapse of the socialist system and the rise of privatisation in most countries including Pakistan. That is why, perhaps, the CIIP in its 1992 recommendations showed flexibility regarding private insurance provided the Shariah compatibility of its operations is guaranteed. Given the disappointing performance of state enterprises, it would be better to encourage private takafols with necessary monitoring by the state.

From an operational viewpoint, the CIIP recommendations do not make any headway toward changing the character of takafols or enhancing their Islamicity. Therefore, some measures are proposed in the following section which, if adopted, shall improve the Islamicity of takafols.

V. RECOMMENDATIONS FOR ISLAMISATION OF TAKAFOLS

As discussed above, insurance is criticised due to riba, gharar and gambling. Judging takafols on the criteria of these prohibitions, it is clear that riba resulting from investment of insurance funds through interest-based channels is completely eliminated. There is an additional improvement as the takafol funds are employed into halal activities only while insurance investments are partly channeled into haram industries like casinos and liquor businesses.

Takafols, like insurance, contain riba because the contracts can still be interpreted as an unequal exchange of money. Besides, indeterminacy regarding installments, and timings and accrual of indemnity and resemblance to gambling remain intact. In other words, elements, of contractual riba, gharar and gambling still exist in takafols. Even the CIIP model is not absolved of these objections since its operational aspects are identical to the takafol operations. Few modifications are proposed here which, if incorporated, will enhance the Islamicity of the takafol operations.

Takafol and insurance provide cover for defined losses only to the participants in exchange of premium payments. The spirit of community cooperation is not imparted in the takafol contracts. Since indemnity is paid only up to defined monetary limits, which may or may not be sufficient to repair damages of the victims. Moreover, only the contributors to the tabaru, like the insured, are entitled to obtain indemnity and benefits out of the tabaru. If the tabaru is different from premium, then it shall also be accessible to other members in the community who cannot afford to buy takafols.31 Therefore, takafols, like insurance, are business deals devoid of community co-operation.

Contracts of takafols, like insurance, are prone to disputes among the insured and the insurers whenever a peril strikes. Disputes result because the hope of monetary gains supersedes the principles of honesty. Each party tries to shift the incidence of risks, even through legal battles, by finding faults with the other party. The onus of proving that the loss was caused by an insured peril rests upon the insured. The onus of proving that the loss was caused by an excepted peril rests upon the insurer. It is generally held that even an innocent misrepresentation of a material fact is no defence to the insured, if the insurer elects to avoid a contract.

The insured are required to disclose all material facts at the time of signing a contract. At the occurrence of an eventuality, the insurers could get the contracts void if it is found that certain facts were not disclosed even due to an innocent mistake or unintentionally. Insurers try to pay the minimum amount within the liability limit stipulated in money terms. Therefore, if the compensation required to cover intended loss rises due to inflation, then the insured is not fully indemnified.

In fact, following the prohibitions of riba, gambling and gharar would minimise business disputes and, thus contribute to justice in the society. One may differ on the extent of these prohibitions in takafols and insurance, but, no one can deny that disputes are rampant. In fact, whenever a claim is filed, the insurers actively search for loopholes and excuses to avoid payment of compensation, while the insured actively manipulate and forge information in order to claim the maximum possible compensation. In addition, an insured may walk out of takafol contract after recovering indemnity, leaving others to bear the unpaid losses which makes the contracts inequitable. It is, therefore, desirable to modify the character of takafols to minimise disputes related with claims and compensations.

The aim of takafol, as well as insurance, is to combat loss on a self-supporting basis, although their approach is a bit different. It is proposed here that the mechanics of self-support shall be modified along the following lines.

First, the participants who incur claims, in excess of their contributions, shall be required to continue their usual payments until the excess received in indemnity is fully refunded to the takafol. The difference between the contributions and the compensations may be treated as; qard al-hasan to the participants. If the insured dies before the payment of the qard then his heirs must bear the responsibility to clear it. The idea is that the participants should not have the incentive to shift the risk of loss to others although they can postpone unbearable losses. In fact, the adoption of the risk-bearing model would reduce exaggerations in claims by the participants as they cannot obtain material advantage on account of shifting burdens. The provision of qard al-hasan certainly represents the spirit of cooperation and also eliminates the possibility of gambling through takafol.

It is worthwhile to note that, in certain cases, participants may not have the ability to pay back the entire debt. Such participants may be given relief from the tabaru funds in a spirit of cooperation in consideration of his inability to pay the debt, but not as a right in exchange of; premium payments. Such support can also be extended from the zakah fund. In other words, zakah funds of the company maybe utilised to assist those participants who do not have the ability to bear losses. Similarly, assistance may be given to non-participating deserving individuals from the tabaru fund, rather than reserving it exclusively for the benefit of the contributors to the tabaru only.

Second, the indemnity shall be to the extent of the actual loss in property and not, as practised currently, in the form of money units to the extent of monetary limits stipulated in the contracts among the insured and the takafol companies. There are several ways by which an insured can be indemnified: by cash payment, repairs, replacement, and reinstatement. It is proposed here that, wherever possible, the indemnity be made in kind only in the form of necessary goods and services to the extent of the loss up to the insured interest. Otherwise, the insured may remain deprived of appropriate indemnity, particularly, in the face of inflation. This condition will eliminate the possibility of contractual riba from takafols as this would mean exchange of money with commodities, rather than money with money. In addition, the participants would be certain to obtain replacement of their real losses so that the extent of gharar, compared with the current practices of takafols, will be lessened. Gambling cannot take place under the proposed amendments as individual participants would have to continue to bear all their losses.

In sum, under the present system, policyholders, in takafol and insurance, have the incentive to shift incidence of risks to others. The object of the above proposals is to remove that incentive by incorporating risk-bearing conditions and, thus, to eliminate risk-shifting which causes disputes. Conditions of risk-bearing and indemnity in kind will change the character of existing takafols and free them from the odium of contractual riba, gambling and, to some extent, gharar.

Muhammad Anwar is associated with International Islamic University, Selangor, Malaysia.

Author's Note: I am gratefully acknowledge the assistance of Prof. Sharif al-Mujahid, Muhammad Fadzli Yusof, Justice Tanzeelur Rahman and Zamir Ahmad. Planning and Development Division. Pakistan.

1See Klingmuller, “Concept and Development of Insurance in Islamic Countries'". Islamic Culture (Hyderabad), January 1969, p. 30.

2See Council of Islamic Ideology, Pakistan. "Report on Islamic- Insurance" [Report Islami Nizam Bima], June 1992, pp. 192-98.

3SeeE. Klingmuller, ibid, p. 34.

4See a correspondent, "Is Insurance Islamic?", Pakistan and Gulf Economist, Feb. 23-March 1,1985, pp. 35-36.

5See Mohammad Muslehuddin, Insurance and Islamic Law, Lahore: Islamic Publications, 1979, Third Edition, pp. ,143-165.

6See Faisal Islamic Bank Sudan, Rules of the Shariah Supervisory Board, n.d. p. 14.

7See CIIP (1992), ibid, pp. 180-183:

8Refer to al-Baqarah: 275-282 for prohibition of riba and al-Baqarah: 219 for prohibition of mai'sar, Gharar is based on murwatir ahadith. For instance, Abu Huraira reported that Holy Prophet (PBUH) forbade the sale by stone throwing and the sale of al-Gharar [Muslim]. Ali reported that the Messenger of Allah forbade forced purchase from a needy person, and purchase of al-Gharar and purchase of fruit before it reaches maturity [Abu Daud] Refer to Mohamed Sadik, "Islamic Insurance System as Practised by the Islamic Insurance Company Ltd. (Sudan)", n.d. pp. 3-4.

9See M. N. Siddiqi, Insurance in an Islamic Economy. Leicester Islamic Foundation, 1985, p. 42

10See Siddiqi, ibid, p. 25.

11Raquibuz Zaman, ibid, pp. 264-66.

12Every insurance contract is not subject to the principle of indemnity. For instance, insurances covering human life (i.e. life, personal accident and sickness policies) are excluded from the principle of indemnity as they are not capable of pecuniary valuation. Similarly, valued policies are not contracts of indemnity and, therefore, the possibility of gambling cannot be eliminated from the valued insurance.

13See Raquibuz Zaman, "Some Issues in Risk Management and Insurance in a Non-Muslim State". American Journal of Islamic Social Science, 5:2, p. 267: and Siddiqi, ibid, pp. 27-35.

14See Siddiqi, ibid, p. 38.

15Raquibux Zaman, ibid, P- 266.

16See Nisa'a: 92.

17See Omar Farrukh, "Banking and Insurance in relation to the Islamic Concept of Riba", p. 128

18Commercial insurance, in all its forms, is declared haram (illegitimate) by the Majlis Fiqhi Islami at the Rabita Alami Islami, due to the presence of gharar, gambling, riba, the prohibited form of rahn, unequal exchange, and payment by the insurer on the happening of an injurious incidence in which insurer has no role. The Majlis Hitah Kibarul Ulem'a also declared all forms of commercial insurance, except cooperative insurance, haram. The Islamic Shariah Board of Dar al-Mal al-Islami is of the opinion that commercial insurance does not comply with Islamic rules. This was also the recommendation of the First Conference for Islamic Economy held in Mecca, in 1976. Some Muslims accept commercial insurance provided certain un-Islamic components are weeded out and insurance is reorganised as takafol on the basis of Islamic code of conduct. In fact, Syarikat Takaful Malaysia Sdn. Bhd. (STMSB) is established as a commercial enterprise operating in accordance with the principles of Shariah.

19See Afzalur Rahman, ibid, p. 186.

20Commercial and mutual insurances are also distinguished on account of following reasons. In commercial insurance, losses are calculated in advance to be compensated by the carrier against which premium is charged. The insured has to pay definite amount in consideration of which the company undertakes losses that may result from the risks specified in the policy. Premium is fixed and the company has no right to demand more. The insured is thus a policy holder. He has no concern with the company which is a profit-seeking body.

The pure mutual institution is managed and controlled by the members alone who are its participants. The losses are shared by the members; as they occur. Premium is not necessarily paid in money as it may consist of liability of contribution to the loss of other members. Prepayment, therefore, is not a condition precedent in this form of mutual insurance. Premium is on levy basis and, under the levy system, payment of amount is based on the actual losses and in case the collected amount should not cover the losses an additional sum may be demanded. For detailed discussion, refer to Muslehuddin, ibid, pp. 16-19 and Afzalur Rahman, Banking and Insurance, London: Muslim Schools Trust, 1979, pp. 182-242.

21It is not possible to discuss details of each takafol Therefore, general features of the takafols, as of insurance, are compared here. Operational information is extracted from following company documents: (1 Muhammad Fadzli Yusof, "Towards an Islamic System of Insurance", paper presented in one-day seminar on Takafol in Jakarta on 19.10.1993; (2) Islamic Takafol Company Luxembourg, "Modaraba Al-Tadamon - A Savings & Takafol Programme"; (3) Islamic Insurance Company Sudan, "Islamic Modarabas for Investment, Savings, and Takafol"; Islamic Investment Company of the Gulf, "Islamic Solidarity Companies" and (4) "Seventh Islamic Modaraba for Investment, Savings and Solidarity among Muslims"; (5) Islamic Insurance Company Ltd. (Jeddah), "Marine Insurance Policy - (Cargo)"; and (6) Mohammed Sadik, "Islamic Insurance System as Practised by the Islamic Insurance Company Ltd. (Sudan)".

22See CIIP(1992),ibid, p. 197.

23See CIIP (1992), ibid, p. 195.

24See K.M. Mortuza Ali, “Insurance in Islam” Thoughts on Economics, 7:4, 1986.

25See Council of Islamic Ideology, Pakistan, Eleventh Report on Insurance and Laws of Insurance, Islamabad, March 1984, p. 12. I

26See CIIP (1984), ibid, p. 12.

27See CIIP (1984), ibid, p. 12.

28See CIIP (1992), ibid, p. 173.

29Idea to treat premiums as waqf was earlier proposed by Mufti Muhammad Shafi. See Muslehuddin, ibid, pp. 160-62.

30See CIIP (1984), ibid, p. 13. -

31The CIIP has recommended that at least 10 percent of takafol fund be reserved for assistance to other deserving people. See CIIP (1992), ibid, p 228.

Gripen
06-05-06, 07:54 AM
Maka terpulanglah kepada individu berkenaan,nak amik Takaful dari kompeni yang 100% mengamalkan Insurans Islam atau ambil takaful dari perbankan convensional tapi dapat 'lesen takaful' atau 'lesen halal' dari BNM. Dari BNM ya,bukan dari Majlis Fatwa atau Makhamah Syariah. Malaysia punya financial sistem cukup menarik,macam corak batik jugak. Nak cakap conventional 100% pun tidak pasal Islamic,nak cakap 100% Islamic pun tidak kerana yang mengawal dan mentabir perbankan Islam atau Islamic finance ialah mereka2 dari konvensional banking and finance. Jika ada masalah yang timbul dari masalah perbankan Islam,contoh dalam topik ini,claim insurance,ianya akan dirujuk kepada makhamah Civil dan bukannya makhamah Syariah kerana perundangan Civil itu melampaui perundangan Islam dan hakim2 yang mengendalikan kes berkaitan dengan permasalahn Takaful contohnya,tidak semestinya hakim beragama Islam dan ahli graduan dari Al-Azhar. :)

ali
06-05-06, 08:07 AM
Assalamualaikum!

You would have to stop whatever you're doing my friends. Immediately. Check you intent again my friend. Do you still have the same intent now compared to the one you have at the beginning of your first writing?

Check! are you still following your intent yg murni mula²nya untuk berbincang atau sekarang sudah mula berbaur nafsu, ego dan yg sewaktu dengannya? Baik² jangan terjebak dgn tipudaya yg biasa. Boleh berbeza pendapat tidak mengapa. Itu menunjukkan betapa kebesaran Allah Ta'ala dan keagungannya melampaui segalanya. Tetapi bab halal dan haram adalah topik yg merbahaya.

Menghalalkan yg haram dan mengharamkan yg halal adalah sesuatu yg teramat serious. Yg haram tetap haram dan yg halal tetap halal. Yg halal itu terang dan yg haram itu terang. So, jangan terpedaya dgn tipudaya syaitan.

Maaf, tidaklah aku mengatakan kamu salah tetapi hanya minta kamu berhati². Bukankah dulu pernah berbincang kenapa mengaji perlu berguru. Inilah sebabnya kerana tipudaya iblis teramatlah halus. Andai kamu menghalalkan yg haram atau mengharamkan yg halal, secara terang atau tersembunyi maka Iblislah yg dicanangkan sebagai UNDISPUTED CHAMPION.

Maaf, dari penulisan, kamu memang berpelajaran tetapi dari aku yg bodoh...... berhati-hatilah.

Winning an argument on the internet is like winning the special olympics, even if you win you are still a retard..

ehehe

jhana
06-05-06, 09:22 AM
I think we better stop the discussion now takut nanti memutuskan sillaturahim. In any case I percaya I dah tunaikan tanggungjawab I.

Gripen, I nak apologise if you feel slighted in any way, not my intention to do so. I admit some of my comments may be too OTT/personal. Why dont we agree to disagree at this point ok?

From now on, lets discuss benda yg kurang controversy , say pasal apa laki obsess sgt pasal bola ... oopps sorry, lagi controversial. :hehe:

kalau nak new topik, ni dia - what do you do kalau nak engage contractor - take melayu yg 99% pasti buat kerja haru/menyakitkan hati or ambik cina, mahal tapi memuaskan hati?

cumikimko
06-05-06, 10:08 AM
Alhamdulillah.....semoga kita sama-sama berusaha mendapat keberkatan ilahi....

mnajem
06-05-06, 10:56 AM
saya pun dulu jadi agen takaful ikhlas. tapi stop sebab tak mampu nak own laptop+original Windows installed. last-last kena terminate(sebab tak buat sale,dan taknak guna pirate software).
Excel sheets TI ni guna Macros windows banyak kot,so dalam OpenOffice tak boleh load. Nak calculate projection sume kena guna Windows.huhu.

Sistem TI guna Wakalah,lebih kurang macam TN. Konsep berdirinya TI/TN based dari memang nak halal tu mungkin tidaklah 100%,tapi asasnya-La dharar walaa dhiraar-kurangkan kemudharatan.

Kalau nak 100% bersih berdiri,kenala dari duit sumbangan orang ke. Tapi bila pulak nak berdiri sistem yang ada skrg kalau nak tunggu camtu. Duit sumbangan tu pun kalau diteliti lagi entahkan dari org yg kerjanye berkait juga dengan riba. Jadinya tak selesai-selesai.

ali
06-05-06, 11:16 AM
kaedahnya..

kalau kita tidak dapat melakukan semua...

janganlah di tinggalkan semuanya..

..

LavendeR
07-05-06, 11:00 AM
baru masuk round ke 3...dah habis dah ?...haha...jhana...gripen ?...mcm suami isteri bertengkar pastu berbaik semula...hehe...(jadi batu api plak aku)...

takde la...gurau jer..jgn amik ati jhana...jgn amik ati gripen...apa yg telah kamu lalu pd round 1-2 mungkin telah memberi banyak pengajaran kpd org lain....kalau dah dpt discuss dgn baik & pro, insyaALLAH ramai manusia yg akan dpt faedah. Manusia adalah makhluk beremosi, adat la tu...janji kita tahu nak "break". Next time boleh start with more calm and relax...cam bersembang dgn kawan2 masa sekolah rendah...heheh...nampak mcm bertengkar, tapi sebenarnya mengeratkan silaturrahim.

KUDOS to both of U...teruskan berforum...berbincang...semoga ALLAH swt top-up lagi ilmu, kefahaman, hikmah & kebaikan dalam diri kamu & juga rakan2 lain....amin

w'salamualaikum wm

p/s:maaf skali lagi gurauan di atas

Humairah
09-05-06, 07:29 AM
Suka gak tgk jhana dan gripen.......membuka minda.......sekurang2nya mengajar kita supaya berfikir lebih jauh............

p/s; tu ar lavender...cam gadus somi isteri lak...... :hehe:

puaka_biru
10-05-06, 05:41 PM
Insuran konvensional adalah haram kerana ada unsur2 riba.
Tetapi bagaimana pula dgn pinjaman peribadi? pinjaman rumah? kereta? Pinjaman PTPTN?
Pinjaman kerajaan? Pinjaman kereta? Sumer itu ada interest (bunga) ?